Degree or not degree?

[Froggy]

I completed my level 4 over a year ago now and I'm thinking the way forward now is to do the degree - what am I letting myself in for? I've heard that my level 4 will count towards 'points' is this true??
Also what books could I buy to give me an insight and help me if i do decide to sign up?
Another also - I've been told I have to have an interview -why ?
As you can see I really haven't done too much research into it thats why I thought I would ask you guys....

[tutu]

hello! good to do some research and talk to others. the huge huge difference is that the degree is academic and therefore completely different to NVQs which demand very little in terms of academic writing. About 70% of my degree students do an academic writing course first and they report it prepares them well. Those who dont invariably flounder as of course you dont get chances or re assessed, your work is graded, then pass or fail.

It is a superb course DEPENDING on where you do it of course! it isn't easy, of course it isn't its a degree but if you enjoy study it is a powerful experience.

On my degree NVQs dont count for any points, the learning is so different it is irrelevant it may count in terms of ucas points but i have yet to see anything from the L4 translate to FD.

i would always counsel a taught class but some of my mentees do it distance learning, they do however miss out on the learning they get from others and the whole uni experience but if you are an independent motivated learner it can work.

Go and see some unis and read the prospectuses very thoroughly.

as to books there aren't textbooks as such the range of topics is so vast it is misleading to look at them as they are merely dictionaries of what to cover. There is a level 4 5 book but we dont use it as it is completely inadequate. Quoting from a textbook, a course book is highly discouraged as they are not deep or rigorous enough. but for example

this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Ear...9162357&sr=8-1

marketed as degree level is just an intro and not approved on the 3 unis i work for

this book however
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Handbook-Ref...9162397&sr=8-2

in the one my first years are using among 4 or 5 for their first unit assignment.

[Heidi]

Totally agree with Tutu - she lectures on this subject, so knows what her university requirements are.
From a student's perspective, I had a degree but changed paths and did another in early years, then the eyps. I felt the students I worked with fell into two catergories - those that had academic qualifications ('a' levels) and knew there would still be a 'leap' in the work expected of them.

The other group were students who had no academic qualifications but came in with NVQ 3 or 4 ( you must have either 'o' levels or GSCE grade C in both English and Maths). This group split in two with those who understood the enormity of what lay ahead and prepared by academic writing, reading, researching and studying their subject; and the other thinking that their NVQ's were fine, so a degree would be too - wrong.

A degree is hard work for everyone, even if you find the work enjoyable and not hard, the pace, the research, the study,the reading, re-reading, the 3-6000 thousand word assignments, presentations - preparations, case conferences etc; don't forget your workplace - your daily routine at work, keyperson work, observations, profiles, home now - children, cooking, washing ironing - social life, family committments, you need time off to clear your head,get your assignment done you can't, you manager needs you in, someone is ill etc etc .You are expected to do your work based on your current experience at your setting and you will have to think of new ideas and include in degree work - run it pass your manager, who doesn't want the expense or the 'hassle'. It impacts on everything you do and everyone in 'your world'.

The first year you are marked differently - higher by a grade or two, but each year you are expected to increase your knowledge, 'crank it up' a bit.

Some students scraped along on a bare pass - needless to say, most of those went before the end of the first year, some through the second year and the number dwindled until there was only half the original number of students in the third year - one or two left at the final hurdle at Christmas.

You need to work so you are producing good work in the first year even those of us that were getting As, realise these may drop in the second year if we did not continue to progress and worked every hour that we could. It spurred most of us into doing well in the first year to push ourselves, as the feeling of doing well (or fear of failing)is reward enough - but you see lots of tears and 'nearly leaving' meltdowns.

It doesn't matter if you are coming from the group with academic qualifications or NVQs, but you must really work hard. English is important, students were pulled aside for poor English and academic writing skills ( but supported with extra English classes - in their own time).

If you really want something hard enough and you feel you are capable of academic writing, then you will enjoy and benefit from gaining a degree in the sector. The funding in most counties has now dried up, with the government announcing that it is no longer a requirement to have an EYP in every early years setting - connected to funding I think. On top of attending university there are other costs, fuel, books - you may want to buy extra books (often books are out on loan when you want to use them), your printing and everything else you feel you need.

This isn't to put you off, but you give you the other side of the coin - the unglamorous side. There are lots of positive points - your knowledge you gain will be beneficial for understanding children better, you may feel the degree gives you more confidence in your own ability, you may feel you want to study further or progress in the sector (promotion) or use it slightly differently in another branch of working with children.

If you do a degree, it will be what you make of it - so if you put in the hard work, and you will be rewarded. Nothing comes 'easy' as they say, and a degree must be earnt - you wouldn't want anything less, if you studied 3-5 years, would you?

Glad to hear you have taken a year after gaining a Level 4 to have a break and consider what you want to do next. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

ps. An interview, gives the university an idea of who you are, whether you can cope and they very often ask you to take a Maths test and write an essay. I had 'a' levels in these subjects; so I didn't have to do the maths test, but I did have to write an essay, which I presume gives them an idea of what your English is like, an insight into your writing style, and maybe it's kept for them to check you are doing your own work.

[Froggy]

Thank you ladies for taking the time to reply to me, I still haven't decided if this is the route I want to take yet as I do have quite a bit to think about.
I have I must admit been worried about my position within the setting where I work - I love my job as pre-school supervisor I have been in the setting 8 years I have a great team behind me and brilliant Ofsted but if government dictates that I must have a degree and an EYP to enable me to stay as in supervisor in the setting I am as I said weighing up the idea of doing so.
I did not realise the government had changed the requirements of having an EYP in each setting - do you know the required qualification for pre-school supervisors?
I am very much aware of the amount of work and dedication involved and again thank you both for giving me more to think about - I will let you know when I decide x

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by Froggy

Thank you ladies for taking the time to reply to me, I still haven't decided if this is the route I want to take yet as I do have quite a bit to think about.
I have I must admit been worried about my position within the setting where I work - I love my job as pre-school supervisor I have been in the setting 8 years I have a great team behind me and brilliant Ofsted but if government dictates that I must have a degree and an EYP to enable me to stay as in supervisor in the setting I am as I said weighing up the idea of doing so.
I did not realise the government had changed the requirements of having an EYP in each setting - do you know the required qualification for pre-school supervisors?
I am very much aware of the amount of work and dedication involved and again thank you both for giving me more to think about - I will let you know when I decide x

I believe it is a level 4 (not sure if that is the new or old course)- but please check, I know NVQ3 is not adequate to manage and lead. I am a manager myself and decided to do the degree when it was first muted about having an EYP in every setting. I decided to do it straight away with funding. I had been told what you are being told now.

I am sure if I had to weigh up everything and the financial uncertainty that we hear about - I would also be thinking very hard and carefully as you are doing.

I was at a meeting a day after the government announced that a graduate was no longer a requirement in early years setting. We spoke of the implications this may have.

I know of students who have no funding for next September and are worried what happens then. The cost to settings may be too much for their training budget to incorporate and some may have to give up. The money in our sector is often not enough for us to pay our own way through a degree.

Counties and areas may differ with their funding, so it is worth checking in your area; but with the current economic climate, the departments who were handing this money out are being thinned out, so who knows? You can see by all the notices of cuts that Pumpkin is posting on this site, that there's likely to be less money rather than more.

The requirement of having an EYP in every setting was to be implemented into Pre-schools by 2015 (2010 in Children's centres) and after the latest announcement, perhaps the government are scrapping/delaying or changing plans? Everything seems a little uncertain at the moment and what's said today, may change tomorrow.

[Froggy]

Originally Posted by Heidi

I believe it is a level 4 (not sure if that is the new or old course)- but please check, I know NVQ3 is not adequate to manage and lead. I am a manager myself and decided to do the degree when it was first muted about having an EYP in every setting. I decided to do it straight away with funding. I had been told what you are being told now.

I am sure if I had to weigh up everything and the financial uncertainty that we hear about - I would also be thinking very hard and carefully as you are doing.

I was at a meeting a day after the government announced that a graduate was no longer a requirement in early years setting. We spoke of the implications this may have.

I know of students who have no funding for next September and are worried what happens then. The cost to settings may be too much for their training budget to incorporate and some may have to give up. The money in our sector is often not enough for us to pay our own way through a degree.

Counties and areas may differ with their funding, so it is worth checking in your area; but with the current economic climate, the departments who were handing this money out are being thinned out, so who knows? You can see by all the notices of cuts that Pumpkin is posting on this site, that there's likely to be less money rather than more.

The requirement of having an EYP in every setting was to be implemented into Pre-schools by 2015 (2010 in Children's centres) and after the latest announcement, perhaps the government are scrapping/delaying or changing plans? Everything seems a little uncertain at the moment and what's said today, may change tomorrow.

Thank you too Heidi for your comments, I have been looking to see where it is written about not needing a graduate in each setting but cannot find anything. Could you tell me where it is ? I know my setting would struggle and I know I would personally to foot the bill if funding was cut - something else I have to think hard about.